Chili--The Debate Continued SEE RECIPE: Andrew's Chili SEE RECIPE: Stock, Making SEE RECIPE: Ellen's Chili SEE RECIPE: Mike's Venison Chili SEE RECIPE: Texan's Real Chili From: "Paul Chiasson" To: "Stsams" anglican@list.stsams.org Subject: Chili--The Debate Continues. Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 I went to a Tex-Mex ( ? ) restaurant this afternoon for lunch. Tried a nicely thickened "pan" chili with sirloin chunks that was very hot from the peppers and spices they used. At first, I tried quelching the fire with cola, then asked for a helping of sour cream, which did the trick admirably. If I could afford sirloin, I might try a variation of my own. The meat was simmered, as I said, in the pan rather than a pot as a "stew". They served large corn tortilla chips which I found much better to use than the spoon or fork. The waiter told me that the mix of spice and spicy vegetables was very simple, and not really carved in stone. I may ask the grocery butcher about some stewing sirloin tomorrow, just to see if a half pound or so is reasonable. Considering the "mad cow" disease is out West, it should make local beef all that much more dear. Hamburger alone may be unreasonable soon. Best stock up on chicken. So, what does everyone suggest for a chili? Let's not get hot under the colour about it, just a friendly exchange of advice and technique if we can. Paul J. Chiasson ------------------------------ From: Andrew Auld I'll bite: > So, what does everyone suggest for a chili? SEE RECIPE: Andrew's Chili I've used round steak, since I think the flavor is better than sirloin, but any good beef, pork or veal is fine, chunked or ground. I brown it with a bit of seasoned flour first, then, for each pound of meat add one medium onion, one bell pepper, and one small can rotel tomatoes, along with a scotch bonnet or two to taste. I season with Creole seasoning instead of salt and liberally add chili powder to taste. It's absolutely imperative to buy premium quality chili powder, the cheap stuff has no taste and will simply make the chili bitter. Once you've made it to taste, put it in the fridge and reheat the next day before eating. - pax - Andrew H. Auld ------------------------------ From: Sibyl Smirl SEE RECIPE: Stock, Making > I've used round steak, since I think the flavor is better than sirloin... I believe it's a general principle that any tougher cut is more flavorful than any tenderer cut, the flavor and toughness both developed with the amount that the muscle was worked when the meat was a live critter. This works out especially well with things like long stewing, since more flavor gets into the broth while leaving more in the meat, and the longer the cooking the more tenderizing. Back when I was frequently making stock, I'd get a heart and/or a tongue (most worked muscles in the critter, and the cheapest per pound, with little or no fat) and put them into the big pot along with the salvaged bones and other stuff for at least four hours of simmer. ------------------------------ From: Mannoates Just please do not put spaghetti or cinnamon in it and serve the beans on the side. MA ------------------------------ From: Sibyl Smirl > Let's not get hot under the colour about it,... Okay, I'll try to stay cool under my red neck. ------------------------------ From: "Ellen Rains Harris" SEE RECIPE: Ellen's Chili While cinnamon is a Cincinnati perversion, as is cloves, and as a result is not True Chili, it's pretty good whateveritis anyway. Meat. Cumin. Garlic. Onion. Peppers. Chili Powder. Tomato product. Masa or flour. This is all that is in chili. Do not let Roy Murphy confuse you. He makes a nice somethingelse, but it is not True Chili. You're welcome. One Who Knows ------------------------------ From: Ann Markle >I've used round steak, since I think the flavor is better than sirloin, . . . . Yum. But let me ask you this. Perhaps it's just personal taste, but I find that round steak often tastes a bit "floury" or "liver-ish" to me. How do you get rid of that taste? Does the tomato and chili itself cover it or eliminate it? Or is that just the taste of round steak? And what are scotch bonnets? And no beans? I do not think I have ever had chili without beans. Curious, Ann The Rev. Ann Markle Crossville, TN ------------------------------ From: Sibyl Smirl > I do not think I have ever had chili without beans. Then you've never had real chili. Personally, I don't have a problem with beans in chili, but the serious purist True Believers do. I _do_ know the difference, though I enjoy many "perversions". Maybe it's because I originate closer to Texas than you did. Listen to Ellen, who is One Who Knows. ------------------------------ From: Ann Markle > Just please do not put spaghetti or cinnamon in it > and serve the beans on the side. I like cinnamon. Cincinnati chili. Yum. Though I don't do it myself. I will horrify the purists by saying that Wegman's has a very good crockpot recipe (think it might be on the web) that is completely vegetarian and fat free, made with 1 tuna-size can of crushed pineapple for texture, along with a bunch of chopped carrots and mushrooms. I learned about it in Weight Watchers, have made it several times, and think it's delicious -- and I'm a food snob. Ann The Rev. Ann Markle Crossville, TN ------------------------------ From: "Ellen Rains Harris" > And no beans? I do not think I have ever had > chili without beans. As I had suspected. you have never had chili. Poor dear. ------------------------------ From: "Ellen Rains Harris" > have made it several times, and think it's delicious -- and I'm a food snob. While a snob you may be, it is not chili. Chili does not include vegetable matter beyond tomato products, peppers and non-mineral bits of chili powder. Sincerely, One with an MDiv from Terlingua, and a card-carrying, dues paid member of Chili Appreciation Society International. ------------------------------ From: Mannoates > And what are scotch bonnets? Scotch bonnets are habanera peppers and they may be hotter than serranos. They are very hot and should be used extremely sparingly among the tender mouthed. >And no beans? I do not think I have ever had chili without beans. I never had it with beans until I left Texas. Chili is the stuff made with meat and chili seasonings everything else - beans, rice, pasta, Fritos, olives are all EXTRAS. Chili and such things do taste better the second day. They need time to age and marinate. MAO ------------------------------ From: "Ellen Rains Harris" > Chili and such things do taste better the second day. > They need time to age and marinate. Indeed, the second day of chili omelet, chili pie, chili hot-dog casserole, chili salad--these are the marks of Truly Fine Chili. ------------------------------ From: "W. Michael Mahoney" > . . . . crushed pineapple for texture, along > with a bunch of chopped carrots and mushrooms. Geez, Ann, you didn't learn to eat that kind of stuff at Yale, did you? My chili - SEE RECIPE: Mike's Venison Chili Venison cut in small chunks and ground pork. Cook down the pork first and use the pork fat to brown the venison. You may have to add oil for a proper browning but be sure to pour off the excess. Add chopped (not minced) onions, canned italian tomatos and the best chili powder (Andrew is right - blend your own if you can't buy good stuff.) Cook for a long time. If necessary, add beef stock and tomato paste. I adjust the "heat" with dried hot peppers from my garden. Presoak black beans and add to the chili a couple of hours before you plan to serve it. Do not let the beans get mushy. Add chopped green peppers about a half hour before serving. They should be cooked but still crunchy. Provide shredded cheese - a good sharp cheddar, please, chopped onions, and sour cream. I recommend a crock pot. Mike M ------------------------------ From: "Ellen Rains Harris" Sir, Black beans are a fond and vain thing, Cuban in their derivation. Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the "Fair Play for Cuba" committee? Searching for unindicted co-conspiritors, Mrs H, neat the Potomac ------------------------------ From: Andrew Auld Ye GADS....another thread I should have avoided! Ann, the Curious asks: > Yum. But let me ask you this. Perhaps it's just personal taste, but I find that > round steak often tastes a bit "floury" or "liver-ish" to me. How do you get rid > of that taste? Does the tomato and chili itself cover it or eliminate it? Or is > that just the taste of round steak? And what are scotch bonnets? And no beans? > I do not think I have ever had chili without beans. Not that I know of...where do your cows eat? I also use round steak for beef bourginonne, or however the hell it's spelled...neither taste like flour, or liver to me - of course, if you do eat _just plain round steak_ un-marianated, tenerized, etc., I suppose it might be difficult, but it shouldn't taste like "flour".. > And what are scotch bonnets? Easier question. Habanero peppers. Look like those little candy pumpkins they sell at Halloween. Be VERY careful both handling and eating them.....I'm not sure you can eat them, just cook with 'em... > And no beans? I do not think I have ever had chili without beans. That is like saying "I never put okra in my gumbo"...I believe that others have pointed out you've had some kind of tomato-bean soup or stew, but NOT chili. Don't worry, you're not alone in this - I only learned this lesson relatively late in life by dating a Texan once, not an experience I'm anxious to repeat....prior to that, like any good Coon-ass, I made chili with beans and mushrooms and other stuff and ate it over rice - just another variation of any other beans n' rice dish from the Gulf Coast - hell, isn't EVERYTHING served over rice? - pax - Andrew H. Auld ------------------------------ From: Mannoates Black beans, pinto beans, chick peas, beans IS great food. MAO ------------------------------ From: "KENNETH PECK" > Chili does not include vegetable matter beyond tomato products, > peppers and non-mineral bits of chili powder. It may be rather like a wallet I owned when I was a child. It was made, as the embossed message made quite clear, out of "Genuine Imitation Leather." It may be "Genuine Imitation Chili," but it isn't chili. (Although I will confess to eating store bought "Genuine Imitation Chili" on a cold day in Lent. But True, Orthodox, Catholic Chili it is not. ------------------------------ From: "W. Michael Mahoney" Searcher Harris writes: > Searching for unindicted co-conspiritors, I would be happy to defend my self before any competent jury. But you, madame, showed yourself to be non-competent when you wrote: > Chili does not include vegetable matter beyond tomato products, > peppers and non-mineral bits of chili powder. Onions, my dear, are a sine qua non of chili. I would just as soon eat a chili with out onions as eat something which combined smooshed pineapple with chili powder and carrots, which is to say that I would not eat it at all. For the record, however, I suspect that it would take a most discerning palate indeed to tell the difference between black beans and regular red kidney beans when cooked up in a proper chili. You can see the difference, of course, which is the point. Hereabouts, when folks see chili with blacks beans they say, "Oh boy! It's Mike Mahoney's venison chili. Get me me a bowl!" Mike Mahoney ------------------------------ From: "Ellen Rains Harris" > Onions, my dear, are a sine qua non of chili. I would just as soon eat a > chili with out onions as eat something which combined smooshed pineapple > with chili powder and carrots, which is to say that I would not eat it at > all. One does not cook beans in Chili, any more than one would Boil Eggs in Chili. It is an abomination. One may add beans. And onions would be one of the non-mineral bits, not unlike garlic or cumin or peppers that are an acceptable part of the Chili. But no squooshed nothing. Squooshed is Not of Chili. ------------------------------ From: "Donald Boyd" For an (not _the_) authentic Texas chili recipe, see http://recipes.stsams.org/recipes/texrealchili.html. SEE RECIPE: Texan's Real Chili If y'all are real nice to me I might reveal the recipe for chili I make now, which is (a) more trouble (b) more fun (c) better. Or I might not. As for beans, I usually add beans to chili in the bowl for eating, but never in the cooking pot. Don in Austin ------------------------------ From: "KENNETH PECK" > Black beans, pinto beans, chick peas, beans IS great food. So is Blue Bell ice cream. But I wouldn't dream of putting it in chili. Those heretics who put beans in chili are anathema; and they shall burn eternally in bean generated methane fires. ------------------------------ From: Mannoates Hear. Hear. "Other" foods are "other" foods. White Castle Cheeseburgers, tuna and catsup out of the can, raw turnips, peanut butter and Waverly Crackers. MAO - keep them beans outta my chili! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 > which is to say that I would not eat it at all. Once upon a time, I was one of the judges in the Greater Cayuga Lake Chili contest held in Kidders, NY for several years running. This being close to that institution located "high above Cayuga's waters...", one was often faced with concoctions comprised of the vegetable equivalent of road-kill because of the perponderance of seed-eaters amongst the local population. I admit to rebelling when faced with a "vegetarian 'chili'" comprised, it seemed at the time, entirely of lima beans. (What next?, I said to myself, brussel sprout 'chili'?). It's good it was a secret ballot..... Andrew H. Auld ------------------------------ From: "W. Michael Mahoney" Ken Peck writes: > Those heretics who put beans in chili are anathema; and they shall burn > eternally in bean generated methane fires. I will be clear on this. Those who wish to separate the beans from my chili may do without my objection so long as they are discrete, orderly, and neat. I say this to demonstrate that I can be ecumenical on these matters. Those who object to onions may also try to remove these but I think they will find it difficult and, if they taste the chili, undesirable. Those who attempt to add any thing other than the provided condiments will be considered inferior. Any one who attempts to add pineapple will be shot. Mike M. ------------------------------ From: "Paul Chiasson" Now, now, Mrs. Harris. What did I say. Let's be nice. Snob or not, we all have different tastes. Let's play nice nice. Paul J. Chiasson ------------------------------ From: "Paul Chiasson" And, let's leave theology out of this for once. Play nice, kiddies. Paul J. Chiasson ------------------------------ From: Sibyl Smirl Uh, Paul, Ellen was basically talking to Ann, not you. But as for tastes in chili, real chili does not include beans cooked in, and it absolutely does not _ever_ include pineapple. There's plenty of room for difference in tastes just in brand of chili powder, types of chiles, and what critter the meat comes from. The second sentence is not difference in taste, them's the facts of what rightly goes by the name that the Texans done give the stuff. ------------------------------ From: Juliann Tarsney > it absolutely does not _ever_ include pineapple. I'll not venture to express an opinion about chili, but I would love to get Ann+'s recipe for whatever-it-is that includes pineapple, etc. Sounds like a great addition to my (limited) lenten repertoire! Ann+, if it's not too much trouble, would you send it to me privately - unless others are interested? Juli (who makes chicken so-called-chili) ------------------------------ From: "Paul Chiasson" > Any one who attempts to add pineapple will be shot. Actually, this one time only will I put down my objection to capital punishment. It's one thing to tolerate vegetarians asking for only specific items on a plate; and I will put together single servings of my Caesar without the bacon bits or chicken when asked. But I will not tolerate a vegetarian defining the menu in my kitchen. Up against the wall they go, covered in pineapple. Oh, wait, I need the pineapple for my ham steak. Paul J. Chiasson ------------------------------ From: Ann Markle > Geez, Ann, you didn't learn to eat that kind of stuff at Yale, did you? > My chili - Your chili sounds very interesting -- I've not had it with venison or black beans. I, too, chop (not mince) my onions. I did not learn it at Yale, where grits was the big competitive dish (garlic, cheddar cheese, etc.). I learned the crockpot chili at Weight Watchers. I probably should eat more of that and less Breyer's Ice Cream, and see what happens. Ann The Rev. Ann Markle Crossville, TN ------------------------------