Barbeque Wars - The April 2003 battle Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 To: anglican@list.stsams.org Subject: Re: Egg Salad From: Andrew Auld "Jones, Phil" writes: > There is more heated debate on this list about egg salad than there is > about theology, liturgy, Anglican news, the war or whatever else this > list is supposed to be for. Enough already! .....and then goes on to rant about jello. Well Phil, it's obvious you're a newcomer. Recipes and food discussions have long been a subject of discussion on this list - as a matter of fact, you're likely to get more agreement on commentary on sex that you are on food. If you really want to see flames, give us your opinions on barbeque.... - ducking & running - Andrew H. Auld ------------------------------ From: "Jones, Phil" You know me too well already, Andrew. I cannot resist jumping right into the trap you set. Since my former job involved incessant travel I was able to indulge one of my favorite culinary tastes: "Where can you get decent barbeque around here?" I know of no subject about which people hold stronger and more contradictory opinions than about barbeque. There is not even a general agreement about what barbeque is. I was raised in central North Carolina, where we eat "Lexington-style" barbecue: chopped pork that has been pit-cooked using hickory wood, served with a vinegar-red-pepper sauce, the recipe for which is secret. For pork barbeque my standard is the meat served at Kepley's in High Point NC. When I visit High Point I always make of point of stopping at Kepley's. After eating a nice lunch I go visit my mother. Other cooked meat is called barbeque: beef, chicken, goat - just about anything that will fit in a pit. The pit seems to be a common theme, although chicken is usually barbequed over coals. Some of the barbeque I've found is interesting, like the mustard-sauced variety of South Carolina. Some of it is a culinary crime, such as the barbeque found in North Carolina outside the Piedmont. No barbeque worthy of the name can be found in the entire Appalachian Mountain region. Florida is likewise devoid of decent barbeque. Alabama and Mississippi have good barbeque; they serve it pulled, not chopped, with a red-hot sauce that brings tears to your eyes. The other form of barbeque over which people enthuse is barbeque ribs. Memphis boasts ribs I would judge fair. Cincinnati exceeds Memphis in ribs. The very best barbeque ribs in the world are to be found in Kansas City (KS or MO, doesn't matter). Any number of KC rib joints will serve you ribs, both pork and beef, to die for. To show I am not a total snob about NC barbeque, I have found two unexpected places one can find excellent barbeque pork. On is New York City - the Hard Rock Café. Their pull-pork sandwich equals any barbeque to be had anywhere. I ordered prepared to scoff. One bite and I was in total disbelief. The other unexpected source of great barbeque is the imu-ovens of Hawaii and Polynesia in general, if I am not mistaken. This pork is cooked in a pit in the sand, wrapped in ti and banana leaves (or what have you). The cooking is done using hot rocks, both inside and outside the pig. I understand one must be very careful that the pig is cooked thoroughly. Undercooked pig can give you what the New Guineans call 'pigbel' - a nasty disease that causes your intestines to die inside you. Finally, the best barbeque, in my humble opinion (yes, right), can be had by visiting the North Bergen Presbyterian Church in Bergen NY and the second Saturday in July. The good people of the church put two or three steers in a pit overnight and serve you the best beef barbeque you ever had. In my discussion of barbeque I left out Texas. That was intentional. Then of course, de gustibus non disputandum. Philip D. Jones, Reporting Tsar ------------------------------ From: Mimi Bennett-Aronson > Other cooked meat is called barbeque: beef, chicken, goat - > just about anything that will fit in a pit. Check out these on St. Sam's and St. Bede's Recipe Pages: http://recipes.stsams.org:/categories/bbq.html BBQ'ed Crabs BBQed Crabs Redux Barbecued Gator Barbecued Venison REAL BBQ Ribs ------------------------------ From: Andrew Auld Thanks for posting the link Mimi - now Phil can see that what I said was true: this list travels on it's stomach! Andrew H. Auld ------------------------------ From: "KENNETH PECK" > If you really want to see flames, give us your opinions on barbeque.... Flames? Barbeque? Never! Barbeque is made only with beef over hot mesquite coals, never over flames. ------------------------------ From: Laura Denny > Barbeque is made only with beef over hot mesquite coals, never over flames. Beef? Beef? Are you mad? Pig meat is the only acceptable meat to barbeque. Peace, Laura ------------------------------ From: "Scott Knitter" For all the arguing that's done over barbecue, one would think it would taste better than it does. Blecch. Ducking and running, Scott ------------------------------ From: Laura Denny > For all the arguing that's done over barbecue, one would think it would > taste better than it does. Blecch. That's 'cause you folks in Chicago ain't got no prime Virginia pork. Meat packer to the world.....phooey. :-D Peace, Laura ------------------------------ From: "W. Michael Mahoney" Barbeque is good. Only an idealogue would deny himself the pleasure of barbeque just because he wasn't in the right part of the country. Hot or mild, vineagary or sweet, beef or pork or chicken or fish - - - all good! And eiher Scott Knitter isn't very adventurous or times have changed in Chicago. Some of the best ribs in the world used to be found on various main thoroughfares in Chicago's black ghettos. But here is the real point: meat is best when the beast is cooked whole. Joyous words around here are: "we're roasting a pig! Come on over." And baby lamp? On a spit. Oak, apple, and cherry wood fire. Garlic and butter. Try it if you ever get a chance. It will be one of your memorable meals. Mike Mahoney, salivating in Rappahannock ------------------------------ From: "W. Michael Mahoney" Oh dear! "lamp" is not short for lamphrey. What I meant was lamb. Sorry. Mike Mahoney, no longer salivating ------------------------------ From: Laura Denny > Joyous words around here are: "we're roasting a pig! Come on over." Mike, You forgot to add, "and bring your own fire fighting equipment". The last time I roasted a pig, the fireball was enormous. Rivers of burning pig fat were flowing down the hill. People were fleeing for their lives. Panic, particularly my own, is not pretty. To this day, Martha Stewart refuses to return my phone calls. Peace, Laura ------------------------------ From: Andrew Auld Not to worry, Laura - Ken is a schismatic, and that liberal Tom Rightmyer allows that bbq'd brisket can be "good" - whatever the hell that means. But as you know, in Heaven there ain't no cows..... - pax - Andrew, who thinks anyone listening to Ken truly has mad cow disease... ------------------------------ From: Andrew Auld Yum yum....baby lamp ....particularly lively meal if you don't unplug it... - pax - Andrew, thinking this week-end might be good one for cabrito, if I can find one this early... ------------------------------ From: Andrew Auld > For all the arguing that's done over barbecue, one would think it would > taste better than it does. Blecch. Even good things, done poorly - or particularly too quickly, can be spoilt.....look at sex: - pax - Andrew, who holds that even bad barbeque is better than perfect tofu... ------------------------------ From: "Donald Boyd" Andrew scrobe "Ken is a schismatic, and that liberal Tom Rightmyer allows that bbq'd brisket can be "good" - whatever the hell that means." Ken is indeed, by Carolina lights, schismatic (as am I, another Texan). Rightmyer has never let the phrase "bbq'd brisket" pass his lips. What he said, anent a meal in Dallas with our departed brother Matt, is that Texans eat smoked brisket that can be very good but is not barbecue. Don in Austin who don't care what it's called so long as he gets smoked brisket aplenty and often ------------------------------ From: "W. Michael Mahoney" > ....particularly lively meal if you don't unplug it... If you leave it plugged in, you have better light to make sure it is not overdone. But you do have to stop the spit every now and then to unwind the cord. Mike M ------------------------------ From: trightmy I didn't say "brisket," but I did enjoy some very good smoked beef with Matt at a place across the street from his church in Dallas. Barbeque is pork cooked in the smoke of hickory wood. The first biblical reference to barbeque is in Peter's vision in Acts 10:11-16. Beef barbeque is like same sex marriage a logical impossibility. Tom Rightmyer ------------------------------ From: "KENNETH PECK" The obvious fallacy of Andrew's argument is that there are no cows in Heaven. Since the Republic of Texas is an adjunct to Heaven, and there are cows in the Republic of Texas, it follows that there are, in point of fact, cows in Heaven. What this has to do with barbeque isn't entirely clear, other than that cows are the mothers of true barbeque, is not entirely clear. As is well known in Heaven, the true and proper matter of the sacrament of barbeque is beef brisket. This in spite of the fact that it is reported that in New Mexico they eat dead cows. We heard from Laura the obvious evidence that pig isn't barbeque but rather the fires of Hell. Incidently, goat is the true and proper matter of the sacrament of cabrito. Another of the Heavenly gifts God hath bestowed on the Republic of Texas. It goes without saying that all true and proper barbeque is cooked with mesquite coals. ------------------------------ From: trightmy The subject line is an appropriate response to the note below from the Minister of Information of the Republic of Texas. The Republic of Texas is a state of mind only - an alternative reality. In the real world babreque is pork cooked over hickory coals, ald Almost Heaven is West Virginia! Tom Rightmyer ------------------------------ From: Andrew Auld Now I can see how vicious rumours start - I started one! "Donald Boyd" writes: >Andrew scrobe "Ken is a schismatic, I had no luck finding a goat, so will substitute a leg of lamb this week-end - pax - Andrew H. Auld ------------------------------ From: Andrew Auld >It goes without saying that all true and proper barbeque is cooked with mesquite coals. Hickory. - but, I must admit, Fr. Ken is right about the goat.... - pax - Andrew H. Auld ------------------------------ From: "Jones, Phil" "KENNETH PECK" wrote > Since the Republic of Texas is an adjunct to Heaven, This missive confirms some of my long-held beliefs: 1. Heaven and Hell are really the same place. Hell is the Texas part. 2. Texans wouldn't know barbecue if it bit them on the ass. The defining feature of barbecue is that it is cooked in a pit. You can barbecue anything you can fit in the pit. Brisket, however, is a poor choice. You want brisket? Go to a nice deli in New York. Barbecue is often used alternatively for meat cooked over coals - a charcoal grill, for example. An example of this is barbecued chicken. I am willing to grant this usage. FYI the very best barbecue chicken can be found from two sources: (1) chicken barbecued by volunteer firemen in western New York state and (2) just about anywhere south of Texas. Pollo Primo restaurants are common in Hispanic neighborhoods in the US. Their chicken is excellent. Mesquite is overrated. Philip D. Jones, Reporting Tsar ------------------------------ From: Sibyl Smirl "Jones, Phil" wrote: > The defining feature of barbecue is that it is cooked in a pit. I remember hearing as a detail on the plenitude of post911 television news coverage about a semi-load of Texans who came to NYC with their semi filled with barbecue equipment, mesquite, and meat, to feed the workers at Ground Zero (and stayed until the cleanup was accomplished). When the brisket that they brought with them was gone, the only brisket they could find to buy in New York was corned beef. ------------------------------ From: "Carol M. Marsh" "KENNETH PECK" wrote >This in spite of the fact that it is reported that > in New Mexico they eat dead cows. We much prefer parts of dead steers. Steaks are especially tasty. Actually, we prefer that any critters we barbeque be dead before we start. If they're still living they scream -- not a pleasant sound, but one that Texans must enjoy seeing as how they like to mount steer's horns on their Cadallacs for hood ornaments. :) Carol -- Carol M. Marsh ------------------------------